Curse

legacyofkain85 · Apr 11, 2009, 10:28 PM // 22:28

^^Like Marty said ,since u have access to heroes and henchman or even 2 sets of heroes if u have a friend or another account from which u can ¨borrow¨3 heroes ,there is little reason to pug,of course if u ever find yourself bored enough u could just help some people out with missions and stuff,only if u are really bored though and willing to put up with the stupidity of some players.
As for your question about why ¨wammos¨are hated,in my opinion its because of peoples mentality believing that using [mending],[healing breeze] or similar self healing skills are going to turn them into ¨tanks¨or something,instead of letting the monks do their job while they do theirs,hence when people see your secondary profession they tend to believe u follow the same typical mentality.

P.S. If u want to run a build,do it and don't listen to other people(unless its constructive criticism) because its about having fun to in this game not only running the ¨best build¨ with the ¨best equipment¨ and such,so if u enjoy playing a mending wammo for ex. by all means do so.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 12, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

Ever tried playing Warrior in a PUG group? Some of them seem to think that the Warrior is meant to distract anything, so the monks and eles can rush up ahead before a battle begins.

Rebirth is not admitting the Warrior is going to screw up, its admiting that PUGs will screw up. Its the fine difference of being a pesimist and being a realist.

If you play with a good team that you know, then feel free to take anything else you feel like taht works.

1. Most of the time PUG's are bad enough not to ask for builds, they are highly likely to complain when i knocklock mobs with earthshaker.

2. The warrior should not be the last player standing, i can see a case for a ranger bringing rebirth but not a warrior.

and healsigging while getting hacked on by a mob = lol

Lux Aeterna · Apr 12, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Why the hell do warriors insist on bringing rebirth?

Once on Hell's Precipice, with my earthshaker build....

We rush a group of titans, I head straight for the backline to begin KD locking a pair of the devastating Spark nukers. 5 seconds later, bam, I'm dead, I don't know how (probably had something to do with x4 [rodgort's invocation]). Somebody rezzes me with a signet, then the rest of the party is dead too.

I'm not sure how it happened but after 20 seconds it was nothing but me and the remaining monk running from a group that wouldn't stop chasing us, until finally killing the monk.

Anyway fortunately I had [rebirth] (because I'd designed my build for that mission), and after a complicated series of resurrections while avoiding aggro from several different enemies I managed to get the party back... and we beat it.

[rebirth] > [resurrection signet]

I put it on my heroes too, and disable it till needed.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 12, 2009, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Well okay if you can't manage aggro for crap then run rebirth...

It's a crutch skill which is why i don't like it anyway.

Winterclaw · Apr 12, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

A res is a res IMO. Rebirth is good when the warrior is skilled and no one else is.

TBH though I don't bring a res much anymore but if you are pugging or are in a situation where someone expects you to have a res skill, it's as good as any. IMO warriors are damage machines and shouldn't be ressing in battle if it's pve... that's something for midline to do. However it can be good to have a res for use after battle just in case.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Apr 13, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

its good to bring it on a warrior, since they have the highest armor so if a group wipes, except for the warrior then he can rez up. Its saved my group in vanqing many times

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 13, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

The reason I don't like Rebirth is that it takes a slot that could be used to make your team more efficient. Taking Rebirth imo is sort of like planning to wipe (if you knew there was only a small chance of wiping, you wouldn't bring it).

Overall, you can't justify Rebirth outside of other people failing (Monks don't know what preprot means, etc).

Clarissa F · Apr 14, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

There are better secondaries for a warrior than /Mo. /D for mega crit/mobs, /P for Godmode, /E for Conjure weapon/Shock...all are better than /Mo, because they all help a warrior to do what he is supposed to do - kill.

As for the Rebirth thing...If the situation is bad enough that you wipe that bad, someone wasn't doing their job; and if you are the last one standing, as a warrior, you weren't doing YOUR job. You should be dead because you were so busy trying to kill stuff that you were overcome by the flood. Rezzing should be left for the midline: if the flood is coming, they should see it and be able to get out of Dodge before you can.

Paul Dawg · Apr 15, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

OK, I understand what you're saying IN THEORY, but IN PRACTICE it can't be right. Which of the following two alternatives is better?

1. I'm the most experienced player in the group; I bring [rebirth] on my war bar; everyone else dies, but I'm able to survive; I use [rebirth] to start the resurrection chain so that the whole party is restored to life and we complete the mission.

2. I'm the most experienced player in the group; I don't bring [rebirth] because in theory I'm not supposed to need a res; everyone else dies, and I die too trying to kill stuff, because in theory if I survive it means that I wasn't doing my job; the party wipes and fails the mission.

That's gotta be elementary, Watson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

As for the Rebirth thing...If the situation is bad enough that you wipe that bad, someone wasn't doing their job; and if you are the last one standing, as a warrior, you weren't doing YOUR job. You should be dead because you were so busy trying to kill stuff that you were overcome by the flood. Rezzing should be left for the midline: if the flood is coming, they should see it and be able to get out of Dodge before you can.

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 15, 2009, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

1. I'm the most experienced player in the group; I bring [rebirth] on my war bar; everyone else dies, but I'm able to survive; I use [rebirth] to start the resurrection chain so that the whole party is restored to life and we complete the mission.

2. I'm the most experienced player in the group; I don't bring [rebirth] because in theory I'm not supposed to need a res; everyone else dies, and I die too trying to kill stuff, because in theory if I survive it means that I wasn't doing my job; the party wipes and fails the mission.

This is true, but only if your team fails (real people). Only in the times when you can't H/H (never) is Rebirth justified (thus, never).

Clarissa F · Apr 15, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

OK, I understand what you're saying IN THEORY, but IN PRACTICE it can't be right. Which of the following two alternatives is better?

1. I'm the most experienced player in the group; I bring [rebirth] on my war bar; everyone else dies, but I'm able to survive; I use [rebirth] to start the resurrection chain so that the whole party is restored to life and we complete the mission.

2. I'm the most experienced player in the group; I don't bring [rebirth] because in theory I'm not supposed to need a res; everyone else dies, and I die too trying to kill stuff, because in theory if I survive it means that I wasn't doing my job; the party wipes and fails the mission.

That's gotta be elementary, Watson.

I can see that point. However...I rarely pug, and the only people I would team with I know are on the ball. If you are pugging, you can expect, 9 times out of ten, either carrying half the idiots through or failing, since most of the people who are worth a crap are H/H or with their friends/Guildies. The only time I pug is to remind myself why I don't do it, as a rule.

When I go into Thirsty River, and a W/R with four beast mastery skills and crap for offense says he's on charge of the group...well, I'd rather swallow a shotgun barrel than deal with that mess.

Besides, a res sig/ Sunspear res sig should be all you need. You res the guy with a hard res, and he should take care of the rest. If your team wipes enough that you need a res sig more than once...someone is really messing up, and you need to all take a look at what you are doing wrong. I'm about preparing and doing it right, not running in like a "bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob."

EDIT: Marty beat me to it, and summed it up better.

Owik Gall · Apr 18, 2009, 03:42 AM // 03:42

What's bad about being a Wammo is previous updates that severe the harmony between the warrior and monk class. During the first years of this game teams rejoice when a wammo joins in because that character can take lots of damage, if any, and be a decent support for the team. Well, if that player is really good. Now, after new campaign releases this concept has turned obsolete. Especially now that we have Dervs. They do much better in supporting and dealing a lot of damage than a wammo could.

There's no denying it. Wammo based builds are inferior now and we must accept it. Best we can do is hope Anet can buff up a few monks spells that will make wammos a bit more decent than what it is now, which is not good. Besides, monks make good with the warriors tactics. Why can't it be vice versa with warriors making good with protection or healing?

Savio · Apr 18, 2009, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

Best we can do is hope Anet can buff up a few monks spells that will make wammos a bit more decent than what it is now, which is not good.

They already buffed Healing Breeze.

Owik Gall · Apr 18, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

They already buffed Healing Breeze.

By lengthening its duration. It's still a problem to have in the bar because of the energy cost. Not only that, many meta builds can counter and even erase the enchantment, which makes it all the more encumbered as an energy skill and less effective. Overall, the increase in length does little for a wammo.

You've got to commit to that skill and that is a big no, no for a warrior.

Winterclaw · Apr 18, 2009, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I don't think it's as simple an issue as buffing a few monk skills.

IMO the real problem with W/MOs is two things:

1. Warriors lack energy and energy regen for the most part.
2. Monks have good skills, but they don't synergize well with warriors for the most part. That's the big killer.

moriz · Apr 18, 2009, 04:51 AM // 04:51

you forgot 3:

wammos are completely redundant in the wake of the dervish, which is, at its core, a supped up mending wammo with about 5x the offence and 9x the defense.

Winterclaw · Apr 18, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Until they have a selection of "sword" scythe and 100blades/godmode for scythes, it just isn't the same.

Paul Dawg · Apr 18, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Sometimes we play with guildmates. Sometimes we help out newer players. Sometimes we sell our services. Of course I'd never bring [rebirth] if I were hero-henching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

This is true, but only if your team fails (real people). Only in the times when you can't H/H (never) is Rebirth justified (thus, never).

gerlin · Apr 19, 2009, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Wammo's aren't hated because they want to be tanks, but mainly because of the mentality and attitude of these people or going full energy armor set and trying to be a healer. I used to run a wammo but i had decent damage output and had decent survivability; but i didn't say "i'm an awesome tank", or "no need for monk i can heal". It was also the time that people didn't hate and bashed wammo's.

Although, skills like mending, healing hands and healing breeze are just plain bad to be run by pretty much anyone.

In the end, people who bash wammos in pug are just as bad or worse then the wammo himself. Almost everyone in here said that they used to run a wammo, because as a just starting player wammos look strong and usefull. Running Vigorous Spirit and Live Vicariously along with Rebirth and Flail with 4 adrenaline attack skills, you don't have the optimal build for a warrior but you still have decent balance between healing and damage.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 20, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

[vigorous spirit] actually has quite a bit of healing output, at 17 health per second for 30 seconds you actually get 510 hp. If I'm stuck in an AB fight without a monk, having some random person cast vigorous spirit on me often means I can frenzy/ primal rage as much as I like without really losing health, provided I never get targetted heavily.

It's quite good for efficient cleanup of random damage provided you have room in your build, I used to use it with healing breeze when I was a wammo and it seemed to really help. (my wammo build's elite skill was quivering blade, by the way)